KUALA LUMPUR: Recently sacked from Umno, former de facto Law Minister Datuk Zaid Ibrahim talks about being grateful to the party for the benefits of the New Economic Policy (NEP), but says, the policy should not be turned into a tool to “blackmail” the Malays.
When did you first hear about your sacking from Umno?
I first heard about my sacking at about midnight. A friend of mine SMSed and said congratulations. So I SMSed back and asked for what. And yeah, you have just been sacked, he said and asked me to read The Star Online.
How did you feel then?
I was quite surprised. Although I had thought that they would take some action, I did not think it would be done that way, so swiftly, giving me no opportunity to explain, that the decision was not appealable, as if I had done something seriously wrong. Otherwise, I was okay.
It is understood that you were sacked because you attended functions organised by the opposition parties. Do you think you deserve to be sacked for that?
No ... I have on many occasions attended opposition rallies and meetings because I have always been interested to see personally (their activities) especially coming from Kota Baru, to see what PAS has to say.
Of course now I have a slightly higher profile, but I thought attending opposition functions was not that serious an offence. Obviously I was wrong.
What exactly was your intention when you attended the functions by the opposition parties?
I have friends from all political parties. So when PKR secretary-general (Datuk Sallehuddin Hashim) asked me to turn up (for PKR’s national convention last Saturday) - he was my friend from the old days, we used to live together during my bachelor days - I said okay.
And also when (DAP adviser Lim) Kit Siang invited me in the morning for the dinner (on Friday night in George Town) I said, okay, if I have nothing to do, I will go.
I was not trying to provoke anyone. Just doing what some people say is a stupid thing, but to me this is just one of those things that you do.
In retrospect, did you think that it was a mistake for you to have done that?
No. In life you do things based on what you think is right. Or at least, (what) is not wrong. But you have to face the consequences of what you do.
When some sections within Umno started criticising you for that, why didn’t you try to explain to the party?
I have been criticised for many years. So being criticised and being ridiculed by people in the party is not something new to me. It happens all the time.
Even when I was still holding party posts, I just happened to have different views about a lot of things, because I thought I was trying in a way to change the culture, the approaches and the policies of the party. And I thought that as a member I had the right to speak up.
Of course when I left the Government, they were more critical of me, but that is okay.
Having been an Umno member for the last 23 years, you surely understand what it stands for and its views on various issues. What makes you think that the changes that you have tried to advocate are acceptable?
A political party has to change, it has to transform. You must remember that I joined when Umno in Kelantan was almost dead. I was very active after we lost in Kelantan in 1990.
I always have this view that, when we did so badly, that when we lost the support of the people, there was no other option but to change, and hence my entanglement with the powers that be.
But after the March general election, I thought I was vindicated in a sense, because we started losing more seats. And I thought that one day your views will prevail, and people will come to accept it, but that is normal in politics.
You don’t change principles just because it suits some people. You believe in certain principles and certain values and that is what you try to bring to your political life, otherwise why are you in politics?
What do you feel about Umno now?
I have this sad feeling. Umno has a tremendous history. We had great leaders in the past, we build this country, we achieved independence, we helped many Malays and of course the bumiputras.
I always hope that we are able to change and adjust according to the needs of the time, so that we will always be relevant.
But today, I am not so sure that it is relevant, that it is receptive and we care enough about important issues. We talk a lot about power and control. That is my view about the party.
Do you think that you have done all that you could for Umno?
I have done what I can. I have done my share. I don’t know if that is enough - that is up to the people to judge. I have always talked about reforms within the party, about how to select leaders to reduce the incidence of money politics.
I always said that we should have more direct elections rather than leaving it to a small group of delegates to decide. I always said that the quota system breeds corruption, that money politics should be left to the agency not to the internal party (mechanism).
I always think that Umno should be bigger than just a Malay party. I always think that Umno is a provider, the one that cares for everyone, that is the philosophy that I have always been advocating. I have always been consistent in that.
Many said that you have failed to adapt to Umno and not the other way around.
Yes, it is probably my fault, too. I don’t know. When things don’t work out, you can say its my fault, or it is somebody else’s fault. It could be a combination of both. They are just not listening or because my approach is not so clever. I don’t know.
Your detractors said that you are a classic case of a successful Malay who is the product of the New Economic Policy (NEP). They said that you are an ungrateful Malay.
No. What is wrong with being successful? When we talk about the NEP what does one mean by that? If it means that it is the responsibility of the Government to help bumiputras based on needs, based on ability and based on merit, based on a sense of fairness, there is nothing wrong with that.
If a bumiputra achieves success because of that, every time that particular bumiputra says something you do not like, you cannot reprimand him. Otherwise you may have to reprimand all the Malays who are successful.
You know, I think the Government has a job to do. And policies like the NEP need open discussion, refinement, more transparency so that whilst you want to help those in need, you are also eliminating the chances of being discriminatory and chances of being unfair to other groups.
So it has to be dealt with in an open way, that is all that I am saying.
But you cannot also “blackmail” people. People must believe. The Malays must believe that they are successful because they are good, they must believe that this is also because of their own effort.
Otherwise, if you implant in their mind that they are beholden to the Government or some party, then they are quite useless actually. Then they are just recipients, someone who just accepts.
So how do you then give the Malays that pride, that sense of belief, the sense of being confident that they must be able to be competitive, to be successful, and to take pride in their own work.
How do you inculcate the sense of values like that if you always say that the Malays are only successful because of Umno.
So you do not feel guilty about speaking up despite having benefited from the NEP?
No, I have no guilt at all, because the NEP is supposed to benefit people like me. It is supposed to help people who are poor, who are from the kampung, the Malays who have no opportunity and I was all that.
If I am critical of the NEP it is because I want more people who are like me to get help, not the Malays who don’t deserve help, because there are many Malays who don’t deserve help.
So you are not an ungrateful Malay?
Of course not. I am grateful for the good things that the Government has done. But that should not stop me from criticising the bad things that they have done. Otherwise I will be just like a parrot, a sycophant.
Every time some Malays who are successful criticise you, I don’t think you should use that easy line and say “you ungrateful fellow”. Then you are treating the Malays like slaves. You should give them respect.
On many occasions we have heard leaders say that we don’t need crutches, we have got to be self-reliant, we have to be a towering Malay (community), we have got to be independent.
How do you give these values, how do you plant this belief in them, if every time someone says a different thing, walks to a different beat or sounds different from you, you ridicule them. How do you create a class of Malays who are prepared to give back to society in a different way. How?
If you could have foreseen what is happening to you now, would you have done things differently?
No, no. I have no regrets being embroiled in politics. That is my way. Like I said, I did not become active in politics until Umno lost everything in Kelantan.
And I remember, when I started getting active, my late father who was a PAS supporter, said why are you wasting your time in Umno. But I thought that Umno has helped me and the Malays, and I wanted to help them back. That was the start.
So what do you plan to do now?
I have said that I will work with the young people. I will work with NGOs, with civil society. I want to spread the word of tolerance. I want to make the young people more open to new ideas.
I want to work with Malay groups, to make them more open about things, more receptive to changes. There are many activities that I will be involved in, and if I am invited by political parties to talk on certain subjects that I can contribute to, then I will, but I will not be joining any political group at the moment.
I am quite happy to do those things and see how far it will go.
Are you swearing off politics altogether?
No. You should not say “never” in life. I believe that when we make a decision on something important, we have a certain feeling that, okay we can rationalise, we can think and debate about it, but we must also feel right.
When I feel right about joining anybody, I will, but at the moment I don’t feel right. I want to focus on the general issues affecting the country.
Sa'odah Elias
The Star
07/12/08
PEOPLE'S POWER
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